Curse

Anduin · Jun 15, 2009, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

With this mindset aren't you technically forcing everyone into hero and henching their way through campaigns because no one will pug together?

It's a two sided coin there.

/notsigned however becuse it's too late in Guild Wars lifespan now to make a good difference. Most of the people who probably cared to play with real people probably left by now.

Except, no one is forcing anyone to solely rely on heroes/henchmen, so your logic fails. As it stands, each side has the option to play how they want: try to form a group, or use heroes/henchmen. His plan removes an option and forces people into one mode of play. No such problem exists at the moment. There is no "two sided coin" problem.

H-lord · Jun 15, 2009, 05:29 AM // 05:29

/notsigned
The heroes system right now is ok, well if anet will change the AI a bit for instance using aura of the lich(also master of magic) correctly for heroes and other skill that have been change it would be better but right now it's ok.
From your reason, I understand your good old days but things change. Even with or with out heroes, human will always look for ways to make thing more simple for them
check out human history: 5000 years ago we hunt for animals but right now we build our own animal farms.
And for PVP, please understand us newbie to pvp, we aren't going to find exactly full eight player, so we need some heroes to fill in the gap and two is just right no more no less.

draxynnic · Jun 15, 2009, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

It would be great in a world where every city has lots of ppl to party ,there are plenty of ppl of each prof , they are not retarded and even so they have PvE skills and know where/when to use it ( with good rank for them ofc ).
Sadly we are not in that world , so very VERY BIG /NOTSIGNED

You missed "and they want to do exactly the same thing you want to, including taking breaks mid-expedition if something comes up that you need to stop playing for a bit to deal with." I'd add "and they don't insist on using some gimmick build outside your preferred playstyle" but that may come under "not retarded".

The zquests provide good opportunities for PUGging, and I'll generally PUG a zquest... the first try, if people are available. As soon as I get the idea that I can do something easier with hero/hench, though, I'll do that. Usually because people are morons that don't know how to do the mission, or they're morons who think the mesmer is the one to kick when things aren't working.

Did I mention that I live in Australia, and most days I don't get home until it's very much AFTER most players have gone to bed? For me, the 'good old days' never existed except on weekends (and even then, I'd need to have some pretty rose-tinted glasses to see the waits of up to an hour for monks as 'good').

I really don't see this improving the PUG scene any. Instead, those people who H/H now because, for whatever reason, they don't consider PUGging to be a reasonable option would just quit the game instead, and the PUG scene will stay as it was. It may even get worse, as they may quit entirely when previously they were willing to PUG some things and H/H others.

So... so very, very much /notsigned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Restricting heroes will only serve to reduce the number of people playing the game, as the solo-ers get frustrated with having years of 3 heroes taken away from them. ZQuests have already been a tremendous boon to PUGs; I've been somewhat regularly PUG-ing them since they came out now, with mostly positive results, including some absolutely brutal slaughterings of "Hard Mode" missions.

And this is why I do normally try to PUG a zquest the first time around. A good PUG still has so many advantages over H/Hing or even 2P6Hing it's not funny... as long as you can get one. It can also expose you to new builds you can try out later.

[quote=R.Shayne]Guild Wars does not have the numbers to support pugs in all the areas for that reason I would suggest unlocking seven heroes in UW & FoW for those that do not want to speed clear.[.quote]Even just being able to bring henchmen in (levelled to 20 in the case of ToA) would do...

DeFFik · Jun 15, 2009, 06:35 AM // 06:35

/notsigned, just play with guildies if you want to play with people.

With people that you 'know' (better or less) you can convince someone to change build, this rule doesn't apply to pugs, and that is the reason why most of pugs fail.

Hailey Anne · Jun 15, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

With this mindset aren't you technically forcing everyone into hero and henching their way through campaigns because no one will pug together?

It's a two sided coin there.

/notsigned however becuse it's too late in Guild Wars lifespan now to make a good difference. Most of the people who probably cared to play with real people probably left by now.

No one forces anyone to play with h/h if you want to play with humans join an active guild to play with.
I never Puged for missions/quests even before heroes came out.
Hench all the way over pugs because most of them are idiots.
/not signed

Jarus · Jun 15, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19

/unsigned

I'm quite happy partying with just my wife and our 6 heroes, thank you.

Capulatio · Jun 15, 2009, 08:46 AM // 08:46

You would kill all the team builds that require Heroes, I always use Sabway, and with a friend I use 2 man necroway for vanquishing, completely:

/unsigned.

AmbientMelody · Jun 15, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

If any of you think it will be better in gw2, you are mistaken. Only difference, judging on very scarce amount of information we were given is that many areas will be soloable by one player either getting a hold on a buff or using some kind of battle pet. In other areas it will be you + hench + hero + pet + other players. You can argue how terrible this idea is simply because you have adapted to broken game. As for 'idiots' in PUGs ... well, get some distance dudes, CORPG should be all about playing with other people and as it stands now most pve areas can be soloed by one man with h/h. Sure, maybe that's funny for you, but I don't find a pleasure in playing Dungeon Siege Online. I prefer singleplayer. Back at prophecies and factions I had way more fun in pve with other people, be it friends, guild or random people and even if we failed few times in a row most of people stayed to try the mission or quest again. I still remember what determination it took us to do last 4 missions in the game or titan quests. In Nightfall, while I agree heroes are fun and offer very good content for actual solo players pissed off by brainless/useless henchies, I actually found myself rather assigning 3 heroes and healing henchies + 1-2 players to do something, than actually forming a team. It's both good and bad. I proposed a middle ground but looks like unchallenging and unbelievable easy way to vanquish areas on HM with h/h gimmick builds overthrown your common sense. Sure, easier games sell better. Seriously, a year ago or two I wouldn't give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about pve aspect of this game since I was mainly a pvp player then, but right now I'm more of 50/50 on this. At least none of you pointed out removing heroes from all but hero battles as nonsense, that's a good sign. What I don't understand is why everybody jumped on me like some kind of retard instead of actually discussing the idea and proposing alternative suggestions. I guess you are not the same kind of community and players as a whole like 2-3 years ago. Too bad, because from my experience it was the Nightfall that brought such high amount of trolls to the game and the forums and you might be, sadly, one of them, especially if NF is your first campaign. Felt offended? Good, it means I'm talking about you, not some imagined reality. Not felt offended? Simply means it doesn't apply to you.

Abedeus · Jun 15, 2009, 09:16 AM // 09:16

/notsigned

I don't recall having a good time with a PUG. Any, you name it, it wasn't good.

...btw, I don't think any of people who said "Unsigned" know what that means. It's incorrect, but if you want ANY meaning out of this, it means "I signed it before, now I want to delete my signature".

AmbientMelody · Jun 15, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

I don't refer to 'unsigned' but actual worth of some posts in terms of contributing or not at all to the topic in my opinion. I like criticism backed up with own opinion and alternative solution. I have no respect at all for useless posts. I won't even bother quoting their authors.

glacialphoenix · Jun 15, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

...so, you're insulting us because we don't want to play the game your way.

Also, what? There are good PUGs, there are bad PUGs, and while I've had the pleasure of playing with the good ones I don't want to retry various things with a bad PUG. Bad players exist. People get frustrated when bad players pull them down. It's not because everyone wants to run some broken gimmick like you think.

And, as has been said before, what if you want to run something and nobody else is online? Should we all wait? There are a lot of missions in GW, a lot of vanquishes, a lot of dungeons. If I want to do Frostmaw's, am I now expected to camp in the nearest outpost tiredly spamming LFG FROSTMAW when there's nobody there? If I just want to play with a couple of friends and chat as we slackily make our way through the missions, am I now not allowed to do that?

AmbientMelody · Jun 15, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

...so, you're insulting us because we don't want to play the game your way.

Also, what? There are good PUGs, there are bad PUGs, and while I've had the pleasure of playing with the good ones I don't want to retry various things with a bad PUG. Bad players exist. People get frustrated when bad players pull them down. It's not because everyone wants to run some broken gimmick like you think.

And, as has been said before, what if you want to run something and nobody else is online? Should we all wait? There are a lot of missions in GW, a lot of vanquishes, a lot of dungeons. If I want to do Frostmaw's, am I now expected to camp in the nearest outpost tiredly spamming LFG FROSTMAW when there's nobody there? If I just want to play with a couple of friends and chat as we slackily make our way through the missions, am I now not allowed to do that?

Re-read my two previous posts. I'm not going to argue with any of you any longer. Oh, and don't put words in my mouth which I didn't say.

zwei2stein · Jun 15, 2009, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Wow, just WoW at that last rant.

Sheer amount of arrogance and ignorance is ... astonishing.

Face it AmbientMelody, no-one wants you fail together with you. No-one enjoys to be your game-slave, being forced to play with you just because you have some dumb notion of the one and only way to have fun in game. And no-one wants to drag bossy-you through missions.

Guess what, get some RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing friends/guild and play with humans. If you have trouble with that I suggest you use above post as reference and inital clue.

PS: middle ground is NOT being forced to play with humans.

Abedeus · Jun 15, 2009, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

Re-read my two previous posts. I'm not going to argue with any of you any longer. Oh, and don't put words in my mouth which I didn't say.

Ah, the Cartman Defense.

"Screw you guys, I'm going home!"

zwei2stein · Jun 15, 2009, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anduin

...His plan removes an option and forces people into one mode of play...

His plan is even worse than that.

'buddy players'. would get shafted two as you would need at least 4 humans to play in HM.

So much for friend/friend parties...

AmbientMelody · Jun 15, 2009, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

His plan is even worse than that.

'buddy players'. would get shafted two as you would need at least 4 humans to play in HM.

So much for friend/friend parties...

Guild Wars - depending on e-zine/site it's classified as either Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game or Cooperative Online Role-Playing Game.

In none of the reviews it's actually stated you will end up playing alone with h/h unless you are in active guild and in none of the reviews 'competitive ladder high-skill based pvp games' are actually marked as 'go with noob heroes and farm fame'. I guess the way what this game now is and how it is advertised are two different things, because I see the game marked as what it was upon release, while degrading further all the time.

So much for the 'at least 4 humans to play in HM on 8/12 party limit area'

Looks like good, old system back in D2 with scaling hit points of monsters depending on number of players was best. Yes, I admit freely Anet failed, but the guys at least tried and would use at least some of your feedback. Being utterly conservative is not going to improve things.

I remember what this game used to be and my reasoning based on two pages of posts leads me to conclusion that destroying team & socialising spirit with other, unknown people on your way in pve was an IMPROVEMENT, right? Well, couldn't care less, I see tons of those kind of a big deal r3-5 guys that are 'offline' in the status all the time, if not 'do not disturb' or 'afk' playing with h/h all the day long, accumulating gay titles and boosting their e-peen. So much for the teamplay, so much for the playing with other people outside your guild, so much for the first immersion this game gave me. And it was good, very good.

I guess they should re-brand the game as 'E-peen title show off' or 'Online Artificial Intelligence Allies Simulator'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Ah, the Cartman Defense.

"Screw you guys, I'm going home!"

'Go ahead .. make my day .. punk'

Abedeus · Jun 15, 2009, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbientMelody

stuff'

Oooooh. So it's envy speaking through you.

a) no friends/guildies
b) no talent or skill to play h/h.

Forgotton200 · Jun 15, 2009, 11:14 AM // 11:14

I never read OP's post but skimming threw replies. If it's something about only having one hero per player, /unsigned.

Elephantaliste · Jun 15, 2009, 11:23 AM // 11:23

/close
-- ANet won't change heroes max cap --
not even worth getting argued once again.
and probably most of player doesnt want a change aswell.

Vilaptca · Jun 15, 2009, 11:57 AM // 11:57

I'd like to think of heroes as a reward for having already pugged through Prophecies and Factions for almost 2 years. Now if you don't have enough guildies or friends on you can bring a hero instead of some moron.

If you want to play with people go out and make some friends. Join a guild with more than two people.

Let the rest of us play the game how we want to.

/notsigned